John Loftus – Finding and Prosecuting Nazi War Criminals

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Dr. Konnilyn Feig || Gary Mokotoff

Holocaust Remembrance WebChat
April 16, 1996

John Loftus

Finding and Prosecuting Nazi War Criminals


This is how the chat began. It continues with a lively discussion of hate groups on the Internet, education, and the question of whether or not to debate revisionism.

Elmar (): . . . .Tue, Apr 16, 8:48AM PDT (-0700 GMT)
The world after the holocaust learned to live with atrocities. We shall not forget the dead of Biafra, the Laos, Vietnam, Rwanda , ex-Jugoslavia, the dead by the Hamas in

Unlucky In Love (): . . . .Tue, Apr 16, 10:49AM PDT (-0700 GMT)
I am only a 16 year old and today I went to a remembrance ceremony and their were people who survived the Holocaust who were speaking and even though I was not in the concentration camps, I have never cried so much in my life.

I am proud to be Jewish and I always will be, I will also do anything that I can to stop what happened in the Holocaust to ever happen again. I think that this tribute to remembrance day in Web chat is one of the first ways to stop people from forgetting what happened and to make sure that it never happens again.

laurel_mancini8 (): . . . . Tue, Apr16, 11:58AM PDT (-0700 GMT)

Hickchick (): . . . . Tue,Apr 16, 12:52PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
I have never been exposed to the amount of hatred that the Jewish people have went through. there is not much exposure in South Dakota besides what is on TV.

_Will_ (MEE): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 1:06PMPDT (-0700 GMT)
*Will leaves a black rose for all the people who died because of hitler*

Antony (STARMAN): . . . . Tue,Apr 16, 1:14PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
HELLO: I’m Albert and I’m israeli born from jew mother and hispanic father. Great opportunity for remember those who died….time ago…..for the hate…..bigotry…racism…..Never…hear this..! NEVER, NEVER FORGET !…keep awake…the evil still is between us….KEEP AWAKE

writething (Michael Dunn): . . . .Tue, Apr 16, 2:44PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Welcome to the first annual Holocaust Remembrance WebChat. Our first speaker is John Loftus, who will be here from 6-7PM EST, 3-4 PST.

John Loftus was in US Military Intelligence and was assigned under President Nixon to determine if there were any Nazi war criminals hiding in the US.

He discovered a secret file which told of a US government program in which our own government was hiding Nazi war criminals. He wanted to expose the program but was silenced.

He decided to quit his job with the government so he could expose this secret program. He has since devoted his life to finding Nazi war criminals and bringing them to justice. He is author of SPYING ON ZION: THESECRET WAR AGAINST THE JEWS.

writething (Michael Dunn): . . . .Tue, Apr 16, 2:51PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
TIP: If you have Netscape, turn off Auto-Load Images under the Options Menu. If you have another browser and can turn graphics off, it’s a good idea and will improve your performance at WebChat.

John Loftus (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 2:54PM PDT (-0700GMT)
Hi, this is John Loftus. Anyone here yet?

COOL*CHIC (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 2:54PM PDT (-0700 GMT)…

writething (Michael Dunn): . . . .Tue, Apr 16, 2:55PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Hi John Loftus, my name is Michael Dunn, WebMaster at the Cybrary. We should be starting shortly. A few were here much earlier, about two hours ago. We should have more in soon.

Joey Korn (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 2:57PMPDT (-0700 GMT)
Is anybody there yet?

writething (Michael Dunn): . . . .Tue, Apr 16, 2:58PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
John, could we start off by you introducing yourself; what are you currently working on?

ELF5808 (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 2:59PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Hi! It’s a pleasure to “meet” you.

John Loftus (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:01PM PDT(-0700 GMT)
I just came back from interviewing Jonathan Pollard in federal prison. He is the subject of my next book.

writething (Michael Dunn): . . . .Tue, Apr 16, 3:02PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Patience is needed, the network is a little slow. But the messages are coming through!

ELF5808 ():. . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:03PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Hi! It’s a pleasure to “meet” you.

David Lewin (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:05PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
David Lewin – London England is (hopefully) here

Joey Korn (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:05PMPDT (-0700 GMT)
Hi, John, Welcome.

Joey Korn (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:08PMPDT (-0700 GMT)
Hi David. Glad you could make it. Sorry it’s so late fo ryou.

writething(Michael Dunn): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:08PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
John, have you done much research on the Internet, such as groups operating online?

I’m interested in what you think of the Wiesenthal Center’s idea to restrict Internet access to hate groups; is this a way to combat them online effectively? What do you think?

John Loftus (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:16PM PDT (-0700GMT)
I think that the answer to bad speech is more speech. Restricting the internet will not end hate groups, only make them more difficult to detect and rebut.

This is a legitimate area of debate. Some scholars believe that you should never debate revisionists and racists. I think it can be an effective strategy, especially if the response comes from non-Jews.

Joey Korn (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:24PMPDT (-0700 GMT)
Access is very slow. John is trying to communicate and it just isn’t working. Please be patient.

writething (Michael Dunn): . . . .Tue, Apr 16, 3:27PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
I don’t think restriction is the answer myself. I get over 4,000 visitors a month to the Cybrary, all interested in learning.

Spending time on the rest would generate more beneficial PR for them than it would to help the cause of learning, IMHO.

Joey Korn (A Cybrary Moderator): . . . .Tue, Apr 16, 3:29PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
We’re still trying.

ELF5808 (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:33PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Hi folks! Just ran into the same problem myself, had to reload about 3 times ’til I got it.

tested (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:34PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Should I come back a little later? I’m very interested.

aaj ():. . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:34PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Who here doesn’t believe that the Holocaust happened??

Jutka (Survivor): . . . . Tue, Apr16, 3:35PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Freedom of speech is not absolute. So hate propaganda should be curbed everywhere for we know where it can lead to. We have a horrific historic example.

David Lewin (): . . . . Tue, Apr16, 3:35PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
I wish I knew what to expect Then I might understand what we are seing.11 people joined – only message so far is “trying” Is that all there has been?

ELF5808 (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16,3:36PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Q for John (whenever he gets back): When did you first suspect that something was going on, and what tipped you off

John Loftus (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16,3:36PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Ah, but how do we curb hate propaganda without crushing the very freedoms necessary to our life.

geopolit ():. . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:37PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Should hate propaganda really be curbed? Should we not argue with it? We have the truth on our side. Our arguments ought to be very convincing.

camalot (): . . . . Tue,Apr 16, 3:38PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
The hate that some of these hate groups give off is handed down from the parents to their children

JohnLoftus (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:38PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Truth is great, but not in a vacuum. We all need to speak out more against the deniers. Don’t debate them, but do denounce them.

ELF5808 (): . . . . Tue, Apr16, 3:39PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
The more you argue with it, the more you fuel the fire.

Joey Korn (ACybrary Moderator): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:39PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
But doesn’t debate give them undeserved legitamacy?

ungvar (Always remember. . . Always): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:39PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
I think the solution lies in education via the mass media, and it the political arena, as well as in preserved videotaped testimony of survivors.

ANadine (ANadine): . . . . Tue,Apr 16, 3:39PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
With freedom of speech comes responsibilities. If you are spreading hate, are you being responsible for actions? I would say no. Thus, hate talk should be stopped.

geopolit (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:41PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
These hates can be peacefully wiped away. A hundred and fifty years ago Irish Catholics were thought of by “polite society” as little better than apes.

Even fifty years ago, in America, they were not yet fully accepted. Things have certainly changed.

John Loftus (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:41PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Education is key, and we have done a lousy job of it. In the last 30 years, we abandoned the field to the deniers. The average US kid read only six sentences on Holocaust in all 12 years of school. We raised a generation of bigots.

Jutka (Survivor): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:42PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
There is always tension in a liberal and democratic society between the rights of the individual and the rights of the community at large. Many people have argued that the risk of not attending to hate groups and their activities is greater than the risk of regulating them.

David Lewin (): . . . . Tue,Apr 16, 3:43PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Without any education, the argument of the revisionists is as tangible as that of the majority who accept that the holocaust took place. Revisionism can only be combatted through facts.

John Loftus (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:44PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Nadine, it has been my opinion that bigots are by their very nature irresponsible. What we should be concerned with is our responsibility as educators to teach our children that the bigots are wrong and hateful. How are we to do that if we pretend such groups do not exist, and ban them from the internet.

Joey Korn (A Cybrary Moderator): . . . .Tue, Apr 16, 3:44PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
I agree that education is the key. Very few states have Holocaust education mandatory. It’s left up to the teachers and it’s not in the curricula.

ELF5808 (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16,3:46PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
If you stop hate talk, then how will you know who to educate?

Jutka (Survivor): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:47PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Freedom in these cases is not viewed as an absolute right but it is tempered with the notion of justice and protection of the rights and freedoms of those who are most vulnerable in our societies.

geopolit (): . . . . Tue,Apr 16, 3:47PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Banning these groups from the Internet does seem ridiculous. I remember when I was a kid being proselytized at the 4-H Fair when I passed by the John Birch Society booth. But I never felt any greater acceptance of the Birchers’ philosophy.

Joey Korn (A Cybrary Moderator): . . . .Tue, Apr 16, 3:47PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
If we regulate the hate groups, we won’t be aware of what they’re up to. I feel it’s better when they’re out in the open.

camalot (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:47PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
What happens when you have a bigoted system, school board or teachers

John Loftus (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:48PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
This is indeed a troubling area. I suppose if I were Jewish, I would not dignify a revisionist by debating him. But as a short-tempered Irish-American, I think such rogues should be exposed. I am opposed to bigots for environmental reasons: they are a waste of valuable oxygen.

David Lewin (): . . . .Tue, Apr 16, 3:49PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Is our bigger problem with hate groups(relatively small number of people) or with Governments who are tired of hearing the Jews complain?

Joey Korn (A Cybrary Moderator): . . . .Tue, Apr 16, 3:50PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
I think you have a point there. It is different when you’re not Jewish and you debate deniers.

JohnLoftus (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:50PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
This year I experimented with a TV debate with a member of the Identity movement. It was a bit fun to rip him to shreds. I confess I am tempted to do it again.

bionurse (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:50PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Don’t we all have prejudices of one sort or another..just because we don’t wallow in our own prejudices doesn’t remove the prejudice.

ELF5808 (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:51PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
David, I think its both.

John Loftus (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:52PM PDT (-0700GMT)
Good point, David. Governmental indifference was in many ways a condition precedent for the Holocaust. The intelligence files show that the allies were getting accurate weekly reports of the number of Jews being killed as early as September 1941.

Apart from communism and fascism, I think the greatest evil in the 20th century was indifference.

Jutka (Survivor):. . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:53PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
I do believe that it is most important that we study and understand the EVENTS that led up to the Holocaust and recognize the signs in our own time and country. Please remember that Hitler came to power by democratic means and it took him only hundred days in power to suspend the constitution of the Weimar republic.

David Lewin(): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:53PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
If it is both – then we needto educate Governments and Educators rather than bigoted activists.

geopolit (): . . . . Tue, Apr16, 3:54PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Such governmental indifference as we see in the1990s in Rwanda?

John Loftus (): . . . . Tue,Apr 16, 3:55PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
I am afraid I may have to leave you shortly. I am giving a dinner speech over in Tampa.

Pity, that just as we got the backlog sorted out. Perhaps I shall rejoin you later this evening. Any burning questions?

ELF5808 (): . . .. Tue, Apr 16, 3:57PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
David, if you leave out the activists, then all the good the educators will do will just disappear. Everyone has to be   educated, yes, even the stubborn ones. At the very least, they can’t say they didn’t know…

Jutka(Survivor): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:57PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
My point is that if we allow these cancerous elements in our democratic society to grow and flourish then the day might come that they will have the power to destroy the very society that allowed them to have all the democratic rights possible.

John Loftus (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:57PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Let us be realistic, Rwanda was only one of many genocides since the Holocaust. Our governments close their eyes because the citizens are indifferent. Perhaps television has given us too much atrocity footage, and we have grown callouses on our souls.

I for one am pleased that after a half century of delay, at least we are bringing back the international forum for trying war criminals, both in Rwanda and Bosnia,

JoeyKorn (A Cybrary Moderator): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:57PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
John has a speech to give and must leave. Sorry it took so long to get things to work. Thank you so much John for participating and for your patience. The next speaker will be on at 8:00 EST, in one hour. Feel free to chat in the meantime.

ungvar (Always remember . . . Always): . . . . Tue,Apr 16, 3:58PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Governments have been known to respond to public opinion. Are we not organized enough, forging alliances with responsible groups to make an agenda of facts and truth more likely to be acted upon by elected officials?

ELF5808 (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:59PM PDT(-0700 GMT)
Yes, John: I am very curious as to how/what tipped you off about this coverup

ANadine (ANadine): . . . . Tue,Apr 16, 4:00PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
How do we combat indifference? Can we? How can we make people care?

CVFchuckf (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16,4:00PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Just found the place. How’s it going. Chuck

Jutka (Survivor): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 4:01PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Anybody care comment on my comments. I’d love to know what you think of individual rights versus group rights?

This is the end of John Loftus’ chat…but it continues with Gary Mokotoff. Select below to continue.

Review our chats with
Dr. Konnilyn Feig || Gary Mokotoff