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Elmar (): . . . .
Tue, Apr 16, 8:48AM PDT (-0700 GMT)
The world after the hollocaust learnd to
live with atrocities. We shall not forget the deads of Biafra, the Laos,
Vietnam, Randa , ex-Jugoslavia, the deads by the Hamas in<
Israel, The starving children of Ethiopya -- the horified stories of the
atrocities commited in those places and many other were well coverd by the world media every home seen the terible atrocities and femine and gone on with his dayly life
WHY one should thinks that this WBS page will prevent
the next atrociteis?? and how???
Unlucky In Love (): . . . .
Tue, Apr 16, 10:49AM PDT (-0700 GMT)
I am only a 16 year old and today I
went to a rememberance ceremony and their were people who survived the Holocaust
who were speaking and even though I was neot in the concerntration camps, I have
never cried so much in my life. I am proud to be Jewish and I always will be, I
will also do anything that I can to stop what happened in the Holocaust to ever
happen again. I think that this tribute to rememberance day in Web chat is one of
the first ways to stop people from forgetting what happened and to make sure that
it never happens again.
laurel_mancini8 (): . . . . Tue, Apr
16, 11:58AM PDT (-0700 GMT)
1
Hickchick (): . . . . Tue,
Apr 16, 12:52PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
I have never been exposed to the amount oh
hatetred that the Jewish people have went through. there is not much exposure in
South Dakota besides what is on TV.
_Will_ (MEE): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 1:06PM
PDT (-0700 GMT)
*Will leaves a black rose for all the people who dide
because of hitler*
Antony (STARMAN): . . . . Tue,
Apr 16, 1:14PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
HELLO: I'm Albert and I'm israeli born from
jew mother and hispanic father. Great oportunity for remember those who
died....time ago.....for the hate.....bigolatry...racism.....Never...hear this..!
NEVER, NEVER FORGET !...keep awake...the evil still is between us....KEEP
AWAKE
writething (Michael Dunn): . . . .
Tue, Apr 16, 2:37PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Cybrary of the Holocaust Remembrance
WebChat will begin shortly. My name is Michael Dunn, onscreen as writething.
writething (Michael Dunn): . . . .
Tue, Apr 16, 2:44PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Welcome to the first annual Holocaust
Remembrance WebChat. Our first speaker is John Loftus, who will be here from 6-7
PM EST, 3-4 PST. John Loftus was in US Military Intelligence and was assigned
under President Nixon to determine if there were any Nazi war criminals hiding in
the US. He discovered a secret file which told of a US government program in
which our own government was hiding Nazi war criminals. He wanted to expose the
program but was silenced. He decided to quit his job with the government so he
could expose this secret program. He has since devoted his life to finding Nazi
war criminals and bringing them to justice. He is author of SPYING ON ZION: THE
SECRET WAR AGAINST THE JEWS.
writething (Michael Dunn): . . . .
Tue, Apr 16, 2:51PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
TIP: If you have Netscape, turn off
Auto-Load Images under the Options Menu. If you have another browser and can
turn graphics off, it's a good idea and will improve your performance at
WebChat.
John Loftus (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 2:54PM PDT (-0700
GMT)
Hi, this is John Loftus. Anyone here yet?
COOL*CHIC (): . . . . Tue,
Apr 16, 2:54PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
...
writething (Michael Dunn): . . . .
Tue, Apr 16, 2:55PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Hi John Loftus, my name is Michael Dunn,
WebMaster at the
Cybrary. We should be starting shortly. A few were here much earlier,
about two hours ago. We should have more in soon.
Joey Korn (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 2:57PM
PDT (-0700 GMT)
Is anybody there yet?
writething (Michael Dunn): . . . .
Tue, Apr 16, 2:58PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
John, could we start off by you
introducing yourself; what are you currently working on?
ELF5808 (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 2:59PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Hi! It's a pleasure
to "meet" you.
John Loftus (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:01PM PDT
(-0700 GMT)
I just came back from intervieweing Jonathan Pollard in federal
prison. He is the subject of my next book.
writething (Michael Dunn): . . . .
Tue, Apr 16, 3:02PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Patience is needed, the network is a
little slow. But the messages are coming through!
ELF5808 ():
. . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:03PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Hi! It's a pleasure to "meet"
you.
writething
(Michael Dunn): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:03PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Patience is
needed, the network is a little slow. But the messages are coming through!
David Lewin (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:05PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
David Lewin - London England is (hopefully) here
Joey Korn (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:05PM
PDT (-0700 GMT)
Hi, John,
Welcome.
ELF5808 (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:06PM PDT (-0700
GMT)
Hi! It's a pleasure to "meet" you.
Joey Korn (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:08PM
PDT (-0700 GMT)
Hi David. Glad you could make it. Sorry it's so late for
you.
writething
(Michael Dunn): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:08PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
John, have you
done much research on the Internet, such as groups operating online?
I'm interested in what you think of the Wiesenthal Center's idea
to restrict Internet access to hate groups; is this a way
to combat them online effectively? What do you think?
John Loftus (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:16PM PDT (-0700
GMT)
I think that the answer to bad speech is more speech. Restricting the
internet will not end hate groups, only make them more difficult to detect and
rebut. This is a legitimate area of debate. Some scholars believe that you
should never debate revisionists and racists. I think it can be an effective
strtatey, espescially if the respopnse cromes from non-Jews.
writething
(Michael Dunn): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:21PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
TIP: For those
having problems, the network nationwide is acting up. If things get held up, hit
your Stop button and try to Reload. It may help out. But these things are
outside of all of our control. :-)
Joey Korn (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:24PM
PDT (-0700 GMT)
Access is very slow. John is trying to communicate and it
just isn't working. Please be patient.
writething (Michael Dunn): . . . .
Tue, Apr 16, 3:27PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
I don't think restriction is the answer
myself. I get over
4,000 visitors a month to the Cybrary, all interested in learning.
Spending time on the rest would generate more beneficial PR
for them than it would to help the cause of learning, IMHO.
Joey Korn (A Cybrary Moderator): . . . .
Tue, Apr 16, 3:29PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
We're still trying.
ELF5808 (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:33PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Hi folks! Just ran
into the same problem myself, had to reload about 3 times 'til I got it.
tested (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:34PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Should I come back a little later? I'm very interested.
aaj ():
. . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:34PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Who here doesn't believe that
the Holochaust happened??
Jutka (Survivor): . . . . Tue, Apr
16, 3:35PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Freedom of speech is not absolute. So hate
propaganda should be curbed everywhere for we know where it can lead to. We have
a horrific historic example.
David Lewin (): . . . . Tue, Apr
16, 3:35PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
I wish I knew what to expect
Then I might understand what we are seing.
11 people joined - only message so far is "trying"
Is that all there has been?
ELF5808 (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16,
3:36PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Q for John (whenever he gets back): When did you
first suspect that something was going on,
and what tipped you off
John Loftus (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16,
3:36PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Ah, but how do we curb hate propaganda without
crushing the very freedoms necessary to oue life.
geopolit ():
. . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:37PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Should hate propaganda really be
curbed? Should we not argue with it? We have the truth on our side. Our
arguments ought to be very convincing.
camalot (): . . . . Tue,
Apr 16, 3:38PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
The hate that some of these hate groups give
off is handed down from the parents to thier children
John
Loftus (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:38PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Truth is great, but
not in a vaccuum. We all need to speak out more against the deniers. Don't
debate them, but do denounce them.
ELF5808 (): . . . . Tue, Apr
16, 3:39PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
The more you argue with it, the more you fuel the
fire.
Joey Korn (A
Cybrary Moderator): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:39PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
But doesn't
debate give them undeserved legitamacy?
ungvar (Always remember
. . . Always): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:39PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
I think the
solution lies in education via the mass media, and it the political arena, as
well as in preserved videotaped testimony of survivors.
ANadine (ANadine): . . . . Tue,
Apr 16, 3:39PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
With freedom of speech comes
responsibilities. If you are spreading hate, are you being responsible for
actions? I would say no. Thus, hate talk should be stopped.
geopolit (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:41PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
These hates can be
peacefully wiped away. A hundred and fifty years ago Irish Catholics were
thought of by "polite society" as little better than apes. Even fifty years ago,
in America, they were not yet fully accepted. Things have certainly changed.
John Loftus (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:41PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Education is key, and we have done a lousy job of it. In the last 30 years, we
abandoned the field to the deniers. The avrage US kid read only six sentences on
Holocaust in all 12 years of school. WQe reaised a generation of bigots.
Jutka (Survivor): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:42PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
There is always tension in a liberal and emocratic society between the rights of
the individual and the rights of the community at large. Many people have argued
that the risk of not attending to hate groups and their activities is greater
than the risk of regulating them.
David Lewin (): . . . . Tue,
Apr 16, 3:43PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Without any education, the argument of the
revisionists is as tangible as that of the majority who accept that the holocaust
took place. Revisionism can only be combatted through facts.
John Loftus (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:44PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Nadine, it has
been my opinion that bigots are by their very nature irresponsible. What we
should be concerned with is our responsibilty as educators to teach our children
that the bigots are wrong and hateful. How are we to dpo that if we pretend such
groups do not exist, and ban them from the internet.
Joey Korn (A Cybrary Moderator): . . . .
Tue, Apr 16, 3:44PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
I agree that education is the key. Very
few states have Holocaust education mandatory. It's left up to the teachers and
it's not in the curricula.
ELF5808 (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16,
3:46PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
If you stop hate talk, then how will you know who to
educate?
Jutka (Survivor): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:47PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Freedom in these cases is not viewed as an absolute right but it is tempered
with the notion of justice and protection of the rights and freedoms of those who
are most vulnerable in our societies.
geopolit (): . . . . Tue,
Apr 16, 3:47PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Banning these groups from the Internet does
seem ridiculous. I remember when I was a kid being proselytized at the 4-H Fair
when I passed by the John Birch Society booth. But I never felt any greater
acceptance of the Birchers' philosophy.
Joey Korn (A Cybrary Moderator): . . . .
Tue, Apr 16, 3:47PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
If we regulate the hate groups, we won't
be aware of what they're up to. I feel it's better when they're out in the
open.
camalot (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:47PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
What happens when you have a bigoted system, school board or teachers
John Loftus (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:48PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
This is indeed a troubling area. I suppose if I were Jewish, I would not dignify
a revisionist by debating him. But as a short-tempered Irish-American, I think
such rogues should be exposed. I am opposed to bigots for environmental reasons:
they are a waste of valuable oxygen.
David Lewin (): . . . .
Tue, Apr 16, 3:49PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Is our bigger problem with hate groups
(relatively small number of people) or
with Governments who are tired of hearing the Jews complain?
Joey Korn (A Cybrary Moderator): . . . .
Tue, Apr 16, 3:50PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
I think you have a point there. It is
different when you're not Jewish and you debate deniers.
John
Loftus (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:50PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
This year I
experimented with a TV debate with a member of the Identity movement. It was a
bit fun to rip him to shreds. I confess I am tempted to do it again.
bionurse (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:50PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Don't we all have prejudices of one sort or another..just because we don't wallow
in our own prejudices doesn't remove the prejudice.
ELF5808 (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:51PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
David, I think its
both.
John Loftus (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:52PM PDT (-0700
GMT)
Good point, David. Governmental indifference was in many ways a
condition precedent for the Holocaust. The intelligence files show that the
allies were getting accurate weekly reports of the number of Jews being killed as
early as September 1941. Apart from communism and fascism, I think the greatest
evil in the 20th century was indifference.
Jutka (Survivor):
. . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:53PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
I do believe that it is most
important that we study and understand the EVENTS that led up to the Holocaust
and recognize the signs in our own time and country. Please remember that Hitler
came to power by democratic means and it took him only hundred days in power to
suspend the constitution of the Weimar republic.
David Lewin
(): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:53PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
If it is both - then we need
to educate Governments and Educators
rather than biggoted activists.
geopolit (): . . . . Tue, Apr
16, 3:54PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Such governmental indifference as we see in the
1990s in Rwanda?
John Loftus (): . . . . Tue,
Apr 16, 3:55PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
I am afraid I may have to leave you shortly.
I am giving a dinner speech over in Tampa. Pity, that just as we got the backlog
sorted out. Perhaps I shall rejoin you later this evening. Any burning
questions?
ELF5808 (): . . .
. Tue, Apr 16, 3:57PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
David, if you leave out the activists,
then all the good the educators will do will just disapear. Everyone has to
educated, yes, even the stubborn ones.
At the very least, they can't say they did'nt know...
Jutka
(Survivor): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:57PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
My point is that if
we allow these cancerous elements in our democratic society to grow and flourish
then the day might come that they will have the power to destroy the very society
that allowed them to have all the democratice rights possible.
John Loftus (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:57PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Let us be
realistic, Rwanda was only one of many genocides since the Holocaust. Our
governments close their eyes because the citizens are indifferent. Perhaps
television has given us too much atrocity footage, and we have grown callouses on
our souls. I for one am pleased that after a half century od delay, at least we
are bringing back the international forum for trying war criminals, both in
Rwanda and Bosnia,
Joey
Korn (A Cybrary Moderator): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:57PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
John has a speech to give and must leave. Sorry it took so long to get
things to work. Thank you so much John for participating and for your patience.
The next speaker will be on at 8:00 EST, in one hour. Feel free to chat in the
meantime.
ungvar (Always remember . . . Always): . . . . Tue,
Apr 16, 3:58PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Governments have been known to respond to
public opinion. Are we not organized enough, forging alliances with responsible
groups to make an agenda of facts and truth more likely to be acted upon by
elected officials?
ELF5808 (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 3:59PM PDT
(-0700 GMT)
Yes, John: I am very curious as to how/what tipped you off about
this coverup
ANadine (ANadine): . . . . Tue,
Apr 16, 4:00PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
How do we combat indifference? Can we? How
can we make people care?
CVFchuckf (): . . . . Tue, Apr 16,
4:00PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Just found the place. How's it going. Chuck
Jutka (Survivor): . . . . Tue, Apr 16, 4:01PM PDT (-0700 GMT)
Anybody care comment on my comments. I'd love to know what you think of
individual rights versus group rights?
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